active network espn
Community: Exchange advice in the forums and read running commentary Resources: Personal running log, calculators, links and other tools for runners News: Running news from around the world Training: Articles and advice about fitness, race training and injury prevention Races/Results: Find upcoming races and past results Home: The Cool Running homepage
Cool Running homepage  Search Cool Running Community
8 Replies Last post: Mar 9, 2008 8:29 AM by figbash  
Click to view Scotiablue's profile Amateur 16 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
Login to Reply

Jan 26, 2008 2:18 PM

Advice after my first long trail run


I've been running for around 7 months, and my longest run so far has been 15km. I went out yesterday for a trail run with an experienced partner and we planned on doing around 18km - running the flats and downhills, and walking the uphills. We inadvertently took a wrong turn and ended up running/walking around 25km, it took around 4 hours. I was really pleased with how well I did - I felt great for most of it and by 20km I was still running comfortably. Obviously I'm a bit stronger than I think I am. Towards the end, I found it was more painful on my legs to walk than to run, but I was pretty tired by the end and walked the last km in spite of that. About half way through that last km, from my hips to my toes was excruciatingly painful (so bad I was nearly in tears), it was hard to walk at all, and I felt dizzy and lightheaded and thought I was going to throw up. I got back to the car, had a drink and a stretch and felt better very quickly, the pain went away. The rest of the day was uneventful, took the dogs for a walk for an hour, and today I feel fine, legs are great.

I'd just like to know how I can avoid that pain and nausea/dizziness next time. A few things come to mind but I'm sure more experienced runners have some other ideas, and I'd really appreciate suggestions.

I probably didn't take enough to drink with me - two 700ml or so handhelds with dilute electrolyte in it. I was rationing it, and by the end was thirsty. Maybe dehydration contributed.

Not enough to eat - had some jelly snakes to snack on but not much else. Breakfast had been tea and toast early in the morning and that possibly wasn't enough.

Electrolytes? I was drinking half strength gatorade - I don't like it full strength, and I hate the taste of plain water, maybe not enough electrolytes for 4 hours on the trail.

Thanks for the suggestions, and please, no flaming - I know that I could have carried more water/food, but I was guided by my running buddies.

Click to view UltraRunner2B's profile Amateur 24 posts since
Sep 26, 2007
1. Jan 27, 2008 12:45 PM in response to: Scotiablue
Re: Advice after my first long trail run

Scotiablue,

I think you already have the idea of what went wrong with this run, but here are my thoughts too: That kind of pain at the end is not normal even for 20-milers--you should be sore, but not in agony. Sounds like you might have had enough fuel for 18km but not 25km. You should not be thirsty near the end of a long run. It's always a good idea to carry more food and water than you need--wrong turns happen all the time on trails. I would suggest a more substantial meal a few hours before starting out too.

Also, you didn't say if your distances up to 15km until now have been on trails. You should be extra conservative in going from pavement to trails and increasing your mileage at the same time since trails are more difficult.

Have fun on your next long run!

Click to view andyndallas's profile Amateur 13 posts since
Jan 6, 2008
2. Jan 27, 2008 4:09 PM in response to: Scotiablue
Re: Advice after my first long trail run
Get yourself a Fuel Belt with plenty of bottles. You can fill half with water and half with gatorade/water mix. It also has small pouches for gels or powerbar bits. Its not any fun to run out of fuel and still have half of your run to do.
Click to view popcorn196's profile Rookie 2 posts since
Jan 25, 2008
3. Jan 28, 2008 3:31 PM in response to: Scotiablue
Re: Advice after my first long trail run
I agree with the other posts. Sounds like you just ran out of everything, water and carbs. Stay away from Gatorade, too much sugar will also cause you to crash. Get yourself a hand held. You'll drink alot more when the water is attached to your hand instead of your belt. Remember pain is just weakness leaving the body. You will soon love your loooong runs.
Click to view Active Toby's profile Active.com Staff 707 posts since
Jun 5, 2007
4. Feb 5, 2008 1:32 PM in response to: Scotiablue
Re: Advice after my first long trail run
From my experience, what you described was a "bonk". You need to take in calories when you are burning them at such a rate. If you're supposed to take in 2800-3000 calories everyday and you add 4 hours of exercise where you could be burning over 1000 calories/hour, you do the math. Tea, toast, jelly snakes? and diluted gatorade don't come close--you need to increase significantly or your body will cannibalize its muscle for fuel which leads to the pain you experienced.

Suggestions for nutrition:
Energy gels
Granola bars
Trail mix
Fig newtons
PB&J sandwich on wheat bread

Does anyone else have fueling suggestions for Scotiablue?
Click to view sgray's profile Pro 76 posts since
Aug 8, 2007
5. Feb 6, 2008 4:35 PM in response to: Active Toby
Re: Advice after my first long trail run
For doing this type of distance, and not really knowing what kind of weather conditions we are talking about, I would suggest drinking more during the run. Also, training for an ultra, you will need to keep training on your walk/run strategies. This is just as important as any other part of your training. When you walk, you use many different muscles than you do when you run. Alot of people overlook this, feeling that if they can cover a long run distance by running, then they should be fine to walk run in the race they are running. Not so. You use a different gait, a different foot turnover, everything. Keep up the good work and make sure to stay hydrated. Another little trick I like to use is to stash away a bag of salty potato chips for a mid run snack.
Click to view dscotina's profile Expert 57 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
6. Mar 9, 2008 5:36 AM in response to: sgray
Re: Advice after my first long trail run
You definately bonked because you didnt take in enough fluids, calories or electrolytes. You need to take in about 20-27 oz of fluid and 200-240 calories ever hour and additional electrolyte. Gatorade is a bad sports drink. It's all simple sugars and not enough eletrolytes. You should use a complex carb drink like GU2O, Hammer etc. Gels are a good way to get your calories. Again, these should be made up of complex carbs like GU. Solid food is not a good choice because blood is directed to your gut during the digestive process. On runs as long as 4 hours you should also take an electrolyte suppliment, like S caps every hour adjusted for weather conditions.

Please visit my trail running blog at: http://breakhearttrailrunning.blogspot.com/

Click to view figbash's profile Legend 617 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
8. Mar 9, 2008 8:32 AM in response to: Scotiablue
Re: Advice after my first long trail run
If you weigh yourself before and after a long run and you'll be amazed at how much weight you lose and virtually all of that weight loss is fluids. I find that on average I'll lose around a liter an hour, slightly more in the summer and a little less in the winter. I've lost as much as 8 pounds on 20+ mile runs. If you were experiencing dizziness and nausea, you were pretty well dehydrated. You also ran significanty farther than you were used to which caused a lot of muscle fatigue. That definitely explains the other problems you had in the last few kilometers. Your difficulties were likely not food related. I've never eaten on any of my long runs, some of them up to 24 miles long. You have more than enough fat and carbohydrates stored for 25km run provided you maintain a reasonable pace.


For future long runs try hydrating the day before so you start out fully hydrated on the day of the run. Also consider stashing water and sports drink along your route or plan your runs around drinking fountains or convenience stores. I like to alternate between water and sports drink so I get enough electrolytes to replace what I've lost.


Tom