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22669 Views 185 Replies Latest reply: May 1, 2008 8:22 AM by Spareribs823 RSS 1 2 3 ... 13 Previous Next
fred-urie Legend 830 posts since
Dec 17, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Apr 3, 2008 9:26 AM

50 Plus April Training and Racing

OK

  • Spareribs823 Legend 2,040 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Apr 3, 2008 12:13 PM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus April Training and Racing

     

    Glad someone straightened out Fred on the calendar thing.  Thanks Fred.

     

     

    I see I have started another argument on supplements on long runs, over on the RA daily today.

     

     

    3.3 on the dirt track, still feeling okay.

     

     

    Just back from the store.  Bought a pair of Newton's.  Anybody ever try these?  What's been your experience?  They tend to encourage a mid- to forefoot strike, which I am working to achieve.   Spareribs

     

     

  • Rich in NH Legend 850 posts since
    Dec 10, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Apr 3, 2008 3:45 PM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus April Training and Racing

    Just wanted to congratulate you on your continued success Spareribs, things are looking up.

     

    Thursday,

     

    8 miles total, 2 warming up, 4 @ tempo, 2 cooling down.   Felt good after taking it easy yesterday, so did this workout today.  I want to go long either Saturday or Sunday, so will probably take it easy 'til then. 

     

    I'm curious how often to do this type workout, I know the value of tempo runs but have read to do them only once a week...





    Enjoy life, this ain't a rehearsal...

  • Bob Scamman Expert 42 posts since
    Sep 28, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Apr 4, 2008 2:23 AM (in response to Rich in NH)
    Re: 50 Plus April Training and Racing

    Thursday's run - I met up with some friends in Portland to do a benefit run for Emily LeVan's daughter, Maddie, who is battling acute lymphoblastic leukemia.   Emily is the owner of the fastest marathon ever run by a Maine woman and is a qualifier for the 2008 Olympic Marathon trials.  You can read more about LeVan's fund-raising drive at http//twotrials.org

     

    We did a nice 5.55 miles of warm up prior to meeting everyone for the benefit run - 48:10 - 8:42 pace nice and comfortable run.

     

     

    We met up with everyone for the benefit run and all four of the Maine women who are running in the Olympic Trials in Boston were there.  They are Joan Benoit-Samuelson, Emily LeVan, Sherri Piers and Kristen Barry.  Sherri and Kristen both qualified last year at Philadelphia after running the whole race together and finishing with identical times!

     

     

    After making our donations and chatting with others and listening to a little pre-run chatter we were off on a nice fun run around Back Bay in Portland.  I ended up running an easy 1st mile and then running the final 3.11 at marathon pace or better.  My splits were - 9:02 - 7:36 - 7:31 - 7:13 - 51.  I felt good and strong and really enjoyed the run. 

     

     

    After the run we got to sit around the store and enjoy listening to the Olympic qualifiers talk about their upcoming run in Boston and their training etc.  It made for a very enjoyable evening.

     

     

  • Achilles58 Amateur 196 posts since
    Dec 8, 2004
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Apr 4, 2008 3:39 AM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus April Training and Racing

     

    Wednesday easy 45 min (recovering from my Sunday long run of 26 mi; last one before my marathon on 20 April in Zurich; goal 3h30)

     

     

    Left Achilles with a small tinge of strain (oh so familar), so I'm taking it easy.

     

     

  • Jim24315 Legend 1,987 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Apr 4, 2008 5:29 AM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus April Training and Racing

     

    Fred,

     

     

    I don't know if you are agreeing with me or not, but Hall's pace on that long tempo is slower than 5k plus 20-25 seconds without factoring in the altitude. How much to allow for the altitude I don't know. Since he is acclimated it wouldn't be as much as otherwise, but I'm sure it has to count for something. That "5k plus 20-25" is a guildline I threw out and nothing else, btw. I think it's reasonable, but not carved in stone. I also hear 15k-HM pace often used as correct range for tempo, but that would be for something shorter than what Hall did in video.

     

     

    Another thing to consider when we are using approximate guidelines such as 5k pace plus so many seconds for a tempo run is that the delta between longer and shorter distance paces is much smaller for an elite runner. For example, the equivalent marathon time for a 13:30 5k would be 2:09:37a difference  of 36 seconds pm between 5k and M pace.. For someone who runs 18:38 for 5k (6-min pace), an equivalent marathon would be 2:58:23a difference of 48 sec pm between 5k and M pace.The delta increases as times get slower.

     

     

  • Jim24315 Legend 1,987 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Apr 4, 2008 5:47 AM (in response to Jim24315)
    Re: 50 Plus April Training and Racing

    Monday - AM: 8 miles at 8:35 pace; PM: 3 miles at 8:40

     

     

     

     

     

    Tuesday - 6 miles at 8:32

     

     

    Wednesday - AM: 12 miles, including 5 x 1600 at 6:35, jog a lap, 5 x 50, cooldown for 1.5 miles. PM: 6 miles at 8:38

     

     

    Thursday - 4 miles at 8:40

     

     

    Plan for short easy today, then low key 5k race tomorrow as more of a workout with longish warmup/cooldown, followed by long run on Sunday. Medium term goal race is HM on May 3.

  • Jim24315 Legend 1,987 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Apr 4, 2008 9:33 AM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus April Training and Racing

     

    Interestng link Fred; will have to take my time a read through it again

     

     

  • Fortunate Son Amateur 26 posts since
    Dec 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Apr 4, 2008 10:33 AM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus April Training and Racing

     

    Hi Jim,

     

     

    I looked unsuccessfully for a pic of me at the San Francisco race.  I did see this nice looking dude though:

     

     

    http://www.brightroom.com/view_user_event.asp?EVENTID=35058&BIB=951&LNSEARCH=1&PWD=

     

     

     

     

     

  • Spareribs823 Legend 2,040 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Apr 4, 2008 12:24 PM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus April Training and Racing

     

    Yes Fred, that is an excellent point.  That is why I followed up today with this quote from Peter Snell:

     

     

    "Snell, three-time Olympic gold medalist and former holder of several world records, went on to get a PhD in physiology after retiring from running. (He practices here in Dallas now.) Armed with science to evaluate the training he did under Lydiard, he said,

     

    'I now have a good rationale for running the longer distances at the pace we did. To get the proper benefit from these workouts hinges on running at a speed that is hard enough, or at a distance that is far enough to exhaust the glycogen in the slow twitch muscle fibers...Only if the exercise level is hard enough or long enough will the fast twitch muscles be recruited. This recruitment of the fast-twitch fibers is what was happening during the later stages of our long runs.

     

    With one exception I wouldn't have changed my training program if I had known then what I do now about physiology. I spent too much time plodding along at seven minutes a mile. Long, slow distance is good for cardiovascular development, but to really develop your maximum oxidative capacity (VO2 max) you've got to do a bit of faster running. The higher the oxidative capacity of your muscles, the later you'll see the rise of lactic acid, which is associated with the onset of muscle fatigue.'

     

    I looked back at my logs and saw that in '04 my training partner and I ran a 20 miler just about every Sunday during the summer and fall. It took us a long time before the 20-miler was no an all-out exhausting run, and it wasn't until we could do that workout pretty normally that we were able to incorporate those strong finishes. You have to be in pretty good shape to do that. Good for any of you who can."

     

     

    The point I was trying to pursue is that if you need an awfully lot of supplements to get through a 20-miler, then you probably need to keep at it on the long runs until you can get to that point.  Once at that point, you get a great training benefit from pushing hard toward the end.  If taking some supplements helps you to do that, certainly there is a benefit for getting the work done, but I used to just run my long runs until I got better at them and then eventually was able to push like that at the end.  As I pointed out yesterday, I drank Gatorade every 3-4 miles, especially during those summer runs here in TX, but never GU or sports beans on a long run. It made me feel more confident to know I could push when a bit depleted.  

     

     

    Four miles slow today with my wife.  Still feeling okay.  Spareribs

     

     

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