active network espn
Login to Reply
1 2 Previous Next
Click to view mstrang's profile Amateur 19 posts since
Jun 23, 2008

Jul 13, 2008 4:28 AM

Component Upgrade Question

Im going to be upgrading my wheel set and rear derailuer soon and as far as the derailuer is concerned the only one Ive considered is the Dura Ace, I already have the pedals and figured Id start a trend, anything youd reccomend there? And for the wheel set Mavic Kysirum and the Bontrager Race x lite series. Im 195 lbs and an agressive rider. A friend of mine on a team says Im a masher and I keep breaking spokes. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Click to view nyarborough's profile Rookie 3 posts since
Feb 20, 2008
1. Jul 14, 2008 7:27 PM in response to: mstrang
Re: Component Upgrade Question

While I ride Campy, you can't go wrong with Dura-Ace. If you want to save a few bucks though, Ultegra is the same high quality but just few grams heavier. The Kyserium wheels are great, I run SLs and weigh 200+ lbs. I'm on my third year with no problems from the wheelset. My regular route has some 40+mph decents with several pavement transitions (bumps) along the way. Even these "high speed" hits haven't affected the wheels, though I did blow a rear tire once. The tire came off the wheel and the tube tangled in the cogs and spokes, the wheel suffered very little damage in spite of running directly on the asphalt.

I used to be a masher myself, but have really improved my climbing and overall endurance by learning to ride at a higher cadence. In the paceline I like to ride at 86-94 rpm and will hit 105 or better climbing. By using the lower gears and remaining seated, you really save your legs (and knees). You'll notice an increase in heatrate as you're transferring the "load" from your legs to your CV system. The trick is to find the balance point, or the rpm, that won't burn your legs out and at the same time, doesn't push your heatrate beyond your max.

Good luck with the upgrades.

Click to view Arawaks's profile Rookie 2 posts since
Jun 16, 2008
3. Jul 17, 2008 8:11 PM in response to: nyarborough
Re: Component Upgrade Question

I am just learning to ride ands have been trying to figure out how to stand and pedal in the saddle. Not much luck. But you say that remaining seated and using a lower gear is better for you when climbing hills.

Is that correct?

Click to view nyarborough's profile Rookie 3 posts since
Feb 20, 2008
4. Jul 17, 2008 9:40 PM in response to: Arawaks
Re: Component Upgrade Question

For us heavier riders, yes.

I'm not saying I never have to stand, because I do depending on the length and grade of the climb. Short steep hills, I stand. Long, less steep climbs, I'm seated. Long, steep climbs, I find another route. (no, really I drop to granny gear and gut it out).

In general, having a higher cadence (lower gear) and staying in the saddle will stress the legs less because you are not having to support your weight in addition to pedaling. In addition, you can pull on the up stroke of the pedaling cycle which is a technique that definately takes time to develop. To get the feel, unclip one shoe and pedal with one leg concentrating on the up stroke and pushing your heel down just as the pedal travels over the top. When the pedal is almost to the bottom, think of scraping mud off the bottom of your shoe and continue pulling all the way to the top again.

Do this for a few minutes, then switch to the other side. You'll need cycling shoes if you don't have them already and do this on level ground to begin. Then work on it with both shoes clipped in for long periods while riding on flat roads. Once you have the technique down head for the hills, scoot back on your saddle an inch or so and surprise yourself.

When you need to stand, you won't be as effective on the upstroke but it definately helps. Modify the technique just a bit by pointing your toes down through the entire revolution of the crank.

Remember, as your heartrate and breathing increase, don't gasp for air, concentrate on "belly-breathing" using your diaphragm and ab muscles to expand the lungs as you breath deeply in through your nose and exhale through your mouth. Pursing your lips and blowing helps me when I'm really exerting myself (think of Lamaze classes for expectant mothers). Odd as it sounds, try to relax as you climb. The more tense you are, the more energy you burn.

I'm no expert, this is just info I have gathered, put into use, and found to work for me.

Have fun and be sure to always wear a helmet.

Click to view Arawaks's profile Rookie 2 posts since
Jun 16, 2008
6. Jul 18, 2008 7:44 PM in response to: nyarborough
Re: Component Upgrade Question
Thanks a million
Click to view MotiveForcer's profile Pro 166 posts since
Jul 9, 2007
7. Jul 20, 2008 9:59 PM in response to: mstrang
Re: Component Upgrade Question

Ksyrium SL wheels will serve you well. I have two sets and in five seasons have only had one broke spoke and it is no doubt because I rode a rear wheel with a slow leak too far hoping to get to our mid ride stop before I repaired it so as not to hold anyone up. After I repaired the flat about 5 miles later the spoke broke. Even though it still held true and I barely had to open the brake lever. I don't believe any of my cohorts have had difficulty with them either. I use one set now on my cyclecross bike on some pretty rough roads and that is my first set with more miles and it is still true. If you get those wheels, or own them, every once in a while make sure you take the funky cone tool that has a tire lever built in but has the little tiny prongs on it and tighten, slightly the little disc with holes in it near the hub.

The Dura-ace tubeless wheels are great too. I've been using them with a tube and Vredestein Fortezza Tricomps as the Tubeless tires are expensive so far. I alternate these wheels with the Ksyrium SLs. SInce Dura-ace wheels have been improved a tad this season you may find the predecessor model which I have available for sale. EXCEL Sports had an incredible deal on them recently but not sure if they are still available.

You got some pretty good advice from the above participants though I'm not really in favor of having you use your toe down technique through the pedaling stroke. Watch the tour. These guys are not doing that. They roll their foot through the stroke accentuating the calf muscle which is generally underutilized by recreational riders who want to MASH with their strong running legs as opposed to developing a sound and efficient cycling or pedaling stroke. In a site here on DEVELOPING SPEED I posted a note on getting to a road which has a slight incline to it and don't go to an easier gear but bear down and roll that pedal around by lowering, not raising, the heal and pushing the pedal around. Likewise, the riders I ride with, and that included this morning two state champions and a former teammate of Bob Roll's who held the record for riding from, get this, San Francisco to LA, never talk about pulling up on the pedal. It is a fun little thing to do now and then BUT it is not healthy for that knee to stress the pulling action.

I do like the drill with pedaling with one foot but don't overdo that and keep it minimal. It is asymmetrical and you don't want to stress your knees. Also, I posted a drill where you find a road about a mile long that has a roller hill on it. Put your bike in a hard gear, come out of the saddle and leisurely climb the hill without sitting down or coasting or freewheeling. When you crest the hill do not shift gears but you must keep pedaling faster and faster and faster!!! It will burn your legs but force yourself to sustain this effort to sustain your pedaling action. You may find yourself squatting down a bit to control the pedal. Don't do this drill too often otherwise you will hate your bike.

So, what derailleur are you replacing? Not quick enough? I have Dura-ace 10 speed but if you've waited this long consider waiting a tad longer for the NEW Dura-ace gruppo soon to come in or wait to see if you can find the current model on sale since it is soon to be obsolete. Also, replace your chain frequently. Especially if you have been mashing the bike or if you are a big guy. Buy a chain checker and when you get to 0.75 you are about due. Don't wait until you are skipping otherwise you may have worn out your cassette and perhaps your chain rings prematurely as well. http://I presume that the new shifter will be compatible with the older brakes. In fact, make sure the shifters you have are compatible with any new derailleur you might buy. Generally, buying speed is best attempted in wheel purchase. You want reliability and performance so the Ksyriums and Dura-ace are both great options.

EJ Levy

MotiveForcer

Click to view mmfiese's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Jul 23, 2008
8. Jul 23, 2008 12:28 PM in response to: mstrang
Re: Component Upgrade Question

I had the same concerns with weight and durability when I purchased Kysirum SLs about 5 years ago. My weight has ranged from 240 to 190 during the 15k I have put on the wheels. They have never required trueing during that time. Excellent wheels - they have taken moderate abuse on the roads I ride. I have also noted that my cycle coasts faster than most (may be a function of my weight, but I believe the wheels / hubs have something to do with it).

You can't go wrong with the Dura Ace, but I've been told the new Ultegra is as good as the old top of the line. Either way, keep it clean and tuned up & it will last for ever.

The comments about cadence and using a heart monitor are on taraget. I ride a lot of moderate climbs (6% - 12% X .5 - 1mi) & find I need to get out of the saddle every now & then for a few strides to get the speed / cadence up. I have also found the Shimano Flight Deck to be a handy tool as you can keep track of the gear ratios as you shift between the rings. You can get some other units like the HAC 4 or 5 that will download data to your computer so you can track cadence, incline, speed, heart rate, etc. which has helped me understand where I am being the most efficient, yet maintaining comfort.

Click to view MotiveForcer's profile Pro 166 posts since
Jul 9, 2007
9. Jul 23, 2008 4:59 PM in response to: mmfiese
Re: Component Upgrade Question
HI again!

Lots of agreement on the wheelset issues. There are great wheels out there, even for bigger guys.


I however, and I'm a Shimano guy, don't recommend the Flight Deck. I think they are overpriced for what you get and what you get is a virtual cadence and not the real data. That said, I do think knowing cadence, especially when first getting into riding is important to give you immediate feedback on your pedaling rate. So what I do recommend is almost any other system and now there are several that are wireless systems for the cadence too and that is neat as it can allow for an idea of speed if used on a trainer.
That said, I am a big fan of SIGMA products. I believe the new 1606 L is wireless cadence and costs a heck of a lot less than the Flight Deck and is easier to install. In addition, the Sigmas have some features that no other computer has, that I am aware of. This includes a capacity to reset any one of the individual functions without losing all the other data. Say you do a warm up before you do your ride. Once you hook up with your buddies and are out of town so to speak, reset your average speed for the "real" part of the ride. Your warm up mileage would totally interfere with the data you collect for average speed and in effect tell you nothing at all. Say you do a century ride. You can see what your average was for the first 25 and reset it for the second quarter and so on. This will not obliterate all the other info such as ride time or max speed or Distance. Now, in addition. It has a trip up/down function. I set mine to Trip Up. So while I am logging miles it will have say 25 miles logged on the distance and 25 for the trip up [It also has an odometer as well, actually two depending on wheel sets and a combined.} So, you can reset the distance for each leg as well and you will still have your total for the trip. If for example I do a three day, I might reset the distance mode each morning but at the end of the weekend I'll check my mileage for the weekend for the total.


I've found the company to be very helpful when I've called them and responsive to any needs I've had or for cohorts. Any shop should be able to order them. Their website is nice as well. I think it is www.sigmasports.com but google them if need be. REI carries them if your local shop doesn't. The Sigmas will cost probably less than half of the Flight Deck.


As I lead a lot of rides and ride to them, I like to know the distance of the ride per se and the average speed of the group ride as my cohorts aren't interested in the mileage that I've accumulated or my total average speed though I want to log my mileage when I get home. In addition, for rapid down hills, especially if you are doing several big hills, you can reset the max speed too so that if the second descent is almost as fast as the first you can still get that data. That means that if on the first hill you hit 47 mph but didn't reset it and the second hill was 45 mph you would never know it, especially since you shouldn't be looking at your speedometer if you are going 45 mph. With this product you can reset it and the info is available to you when you look at a safer time.


Not sure why other "state of the art" computers don't have this reset feature but if they don't I personally wouldn't consider buying them.


HEADS UP!
EJ Levy

Click to view nyarborough's profile Rookie 3 posts since
Feb 20, 2008
10. Jul 23, 2008 9:06 PM in response to: MotiveForcer
Re: Component Upgrade Question

So I'm not misunderstood, I meant toe down technique ONLY when out of the saddle, otherwise yes roll the foot as discussed. Have I been misinformed on this out-of-saddle technique? I'm always game to improve my riding.

Thanks

Click to view MotiveForcer's profile Pro 166 posts since
Jul 9, 2007
11. Jul 23, 2008 9:24 PM in response to: nyarborough
Re: Component Upgrade Question

Well, if it was Lance or George or someone like that then I suppose that is cool but "toe down" when standing is not something I'm familiar with. I am certainly not ever going to wear a polka dot jersey but I've been in a few breaks off the front up hills in fairly high end races (usually I get caught though so my teammate can make the counter attack!) and I think I'm still trying to work my pedal efficiently all the way around. I'm going to look into this further. I just watched the tour, Alpe stage, with Tom O'Rourke from the '52 Helsinki Olympics and former national champ. He was the youngest US Olympian cyclist and has forgotten more then I'll ever know so I'll give him a buzz in the morning! Every specific aspect of the pedaling stroke could certainly serve as a great training technique. The biggest failing as I may have mentioned with new riders though is not their capacity to push the pedal down but to roll it around effectively. As many new cyclists are coming from running so that they are fit, they are inclined to use their running power in their pedaling stroke. This gives them an initial strong feeling and a high initial level of performance but they limit their capacity to be more effective if they don't work on getting a higher cadence. Hence, my out of the saddle up hill and down hill drill.

EJ Levy

Click to view bingboy's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Aug 4, 2008
12. Aug 4, 2008 8:03 PM in response to: mstrang
Re: Component Upgrade Question
ultegra components are great and work just fine!! however if money is no object then go for dura ace...
Click to view MotiveForcer's profile Pro 166 posts since
Jul 9, 2007
13. Aug 4, 2008 8:24 PM in response to: bingboy
Re: Component Upgrade Question

I agree with Bingboy but I never really understood why the original "UPGRADE" question was asked in the first place. What is wrong with the original rear derailleur? Usually I advise folks who buy a bike to buy the most expensive bike they can afford and then use it. AND USE IT! Wear it out. Upgrading components and then putting perfectly good, albeit, slightly lower end components, in a drawer is like taking money and flushing it down the toilet. I'd generally advise to save the money now, ride what you have, perhaps get great pedals and shoes and maybe high end wheels and use those all on your second bike! If one can afford to buy the second bike first then that is cool but if not, enjoy the first one and start saving for the second. Then use the first as a "beater" bike for rain or snow days or sell the whole thing and put the money towards the second bike. Or put the money into a cool cyclecross bike or a mountain bike or a track bike or a neat single speed. Which of those depends on the roads near where you live and what the other riders do, say in the autumn when the days are short.

We do night rides in the fall with lights on dirt roads and pathways and some trails. Mountain bikes work great for this but cross bikes are okay too. Cross bikes can serve as a great second road bike if you put on road tires. They are great on dirt roads and awesome for exploring the countryside during the autumnal color changes. Single speed bikes help work on your cadence and provide a great minimal experience. Two buddies got new single speeds in just the last week. Then there is the track. If there is one anywhere near where you live go check it out. You don't necessarily have to ride on it but if you do it is a blast and the single best thing to do to enhance your riding. Here in Rochester, Michigan we have a 200 meter velodrome which is 44.5 degree banked in the ends. Heck, I wouldn't ski down it! The racing there is fantastic and a blast to watch. This is the best training ground for future Olympians. Mark Cavendish from Team Columbia who won the four stages at the tour evolved on the track and if NBC has half a brain will show him smoking everyone on the track in China!

"RIDE LOTS!" E.M.

EJ Levy

Click to view MotiveForcer's profile Pro 166 posts since
Jul 9, 2007
14. Aug 4, 2008 8:29 PM in response to: nyarborough
Re: Component Upgrade Question

TOE DOWN? I've heard of hoe downs but not toe downs as far as pedaling goes.

I've asked around as I promised and even my resident Olympian and another teammate who Bob Roll mentions in his Bobke II book in the first sentence were not familiar with this as a training technique. The goal is to force the foot through the pedal as powerfully as possible. As a result your foot should be perpendicular, or as close as possible, to the line of force or travel that the pedal is taking. Now, go explore ROTOR cranks or chain rings to find a neat alternative to standard equipment which might get you a boost!


EJ Levy