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21607 Views 187 Replies Latest reply: Nov 3, 2008 8:21 AM by Spareribs823 Go to original post 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 Previous Next
  • Jacques Le Strappe Pro 203 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    137. Oct 24, 2008 9:30 AM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October

     

    Sounds like pretty fast 400's (43 sec) for 5:50 miles in a 5k.  DD runs 70 sec 400's for 6 min pace.  You must have meant 63 sec?

     

     

     

     

     

    This morning I ran 11k.  Half k warmup followed by 10k on the track in the dark, followed by a half k cooldown.  Because it was dark I ran mostly by feel, and a bit by checking HR.  The first 3 1600's were 9:55, 9:22 and 9:10, with HR at 141, 145 & 151.  Remain 1600's were 9:06, 8:56 and 8:58, with HR at 158, 159 and 161.  My normal threshold is around 160 up to to 162.  Last year I was running around 8:35 at that HR, so I have lost some fitness.  But this is a good baseline for improvement!

     

     

  • Jim24315 Legend 1,987 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    138. Oct 24, 2008 9:41 AM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October

     

    fred-urie wrote:

    KS, if marathon pace is currently at 3:05, wouldn't repeat miles at 6:55 be fairly easy? Would there be

     

    any stimulus for growth at that pace. How about 6 times a mile in six minutes with 3 minutes rest,

     

     

    or 12 miles @ marathon pace?

     

     

    Better yet, if you want to race 3.1 @ 5:50, you could get use to running 400's at 43 seconds.

     

    This was the advice I got 3 years ago when I was starting to get impatient:

     

     

    "It is an illusion to runners that running at or faster than race pace is needed to improve in races. A total illusion! You'll be fine and you'll be better for it in the longer term by not overworking it. Steady, steady, steady!"

     

     

    It took a leap of faith for me to believe, but it has proven to be so true. I've taken 9 minutes off half marathon time while seldom running workouts faster than current race pace. Progress might be a little slower, but it is more steady with an eventual higher peak. At least that's what my experience has been. This doesn't mean that you don't run hard--just not too hard. The volume and consistency will more than make up for it.

     

     

  • ksrunr Legend 1,292 posts since
    Aug 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    139. Oct 24, 2008 11:09 AM (in response to Jim24315)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October

     

    Jim - I'm not impatient.   All my speed increase has come from tons of miles and unstructered speed work on hills and fartleks.   Repeat miles, 800's, and 400's would just be more structure.   I hope Fred meant 83 second 400's instead of 43 or 63. 

     

     

    10 miles of hills this morning at 7:47 pace and was relatively easy. 

     

     

  • Jim24315 Legend 1,987 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    140. Oct 24, 2008 1:48 PM (in response to Jacques Le Strappe)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October
    Jacques Le Strappe wrote:

    Sounds like pretty fast 400's (43 sec) for 5:50 miles in a 5k. DD runs 70 sec 400's for 6 min pace. You must have meant 63 sec?

     

     

    Yeah, it's a little quick The world record is 43.18. V02 max pace for someone who runs 5k in 15:25 (4;58 pace) would be 73-74 sec 400's according to Jack Daniels.

  • ksrunr Legend 1,292 posts since
    Aug 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    141. Oct 24, 2008 2:31 PM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October

    I think Fred is a fan of running 200's.   Maybe he meant running 200's at 43 which would make a reasonable 86 sec 400.   More my speed.

  • Jim24315 Legend 1,987 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    142. Oct 24, 2008 2:59 PM (in response to ksrunr)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October

    Yes I'm sure that's what he meant but it's incredible that a human being has actually run 400 meters at that pace. Incredible isn't a strong enough word...mind boggling, stupendous, holy $%^*&! You name it!

  • Jacques Le Strappe Pro 203 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    143. Oct 25, 2008 9:11 AM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October

     

    HS XC held their zone championships here yesterday so Sweetums and I went to watch and to help if necessary.  Turned out that they were short of people so we helped out at the finish line with times and placing.  I was really interested in the girlie race (my daughter influences my interest here) because there were two really good local girls in the race.  One is in Gr 12, and has been running for a few years as well as XC skiing.  She has run high 10's for 3000 meters and is dedicated to training and improving.  The second girl is in Gr 9, and only started running a year ago.  She is tall (around 5 ft 10) and has huge feet.  She has a slow plodding turnover and it appears that she's trying to force each foot well into the earth when it lands.  But lately she's been beating her teammate, so there is some competition building here.  The race course was  a double loop of about 2.2 km, (boys did 3 loops) with a good sized hill about half way around the loop, and a long sloping hill down to the finish.   We were able to see the runners at the start/finish and again at the start of the uphill.  Conditions were very nasty.  Cold, wet and windy, although wind was not a big factor due to most of the course winding through a forest along the Bulkley River.  It was a mass start, so the girls were hard to spot as they went out, but by the time they came back for the first hill they had separated well, and the Gr 12 girl was leading, with the Gr 9 girl plodding along just behind her.  They went up the hill and disappeared for a few min before coming back to start the second loop with the same order, but the Gr 12 girl had opened up about a 10 second lead.  As she came back to the hill for the second time she had increased her lead to about 20 seconds, with the younger girl looking a bit tired, but not winded as she plodded past us.  I felt she had no chance of catching her teammate, but a few minutes later they both came screaming down the final hill to the finish with the younger girl about 5 seconds ahead of the older one as they crossed the finish.  It seemed to me that the younger girl ran her own race, and did it very well.  She has a great future if she continues to run like that.  Overall time was just over 20 min, with the first loop in about 9:55 for her.  Her team mate ran the first loop in 9:45 and the second in about 10:35.

     

     

     

     

     

    Today was an easy day.  I did an out and back in the dark to the local Toyota dealer for just inder 9k.  When I returned I did a loop of the track to get a sense of my pace, and wonder of wonders!  I was running at justover 9:30!  Not bad for an easy run!

     

     

     

     

     

    Later today we will be doing a 4 hr hike up Hudson Bay Mtn to a glacier.  Weather is supposed to be nice, but it is sunny and snowing under very windy skies right now.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • JPGarland Legend 776 posts since
    Dec 7, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    144. Oct 25, 2008 9:42 AM (in response to Jacques Le Strappe)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October

    Thought I'd check in.  I have been cleared to run.  I did 0.75 Thursday and 1.85 today.  Awkward but good to do it.  The left arm is still pretty immobile, but it's a start.

     

    I bought a treadmill, and expect it to be delivered today.

  • ksrunr Legend 1,292 posts since
    Aug 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    148. Oct 25, 2008 10:41 AM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October

     

    400's were never my specialty and really didn't like doing them.   In highschool we would run 8-12 repeats and I would run them between 70-74 secs.  I didn't race the mile but a few times and my best was only 4:35 or so.  Best 2 miles in college was 9:45 and college 9:36.   The longer the race the better for me I guess.  Our coach ran us more miles than any other high school in the city.  A good base and some good track workouts made for a pretty fair XC team.

     

     

    We had a kid in h.s. I'm convinced would have been a national college class runner.  But bad parenting and a lack of desire never got him below 4:20.  You should have seen his natural form.  Wow.

     

     

    Hi JP.  I was in NYC and thought was wondering how you were doing.

     

     

  • Jacques Le Strappe Pro 203 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    149. Oct 25, 2008 3:33 PM (in response to fred-urie)
    Re: 50 Plus Training and Racing - October

     

     

     

     

    I think I was a bit optimistic at that pace.  She is no 4:06 miler for sure.  She ran 5:09 1500, but has not competed at that distance for two years. 

     

     

    I know she runs 34 second 200 reps, but that's pretty close to her top end...maybe a second or two faster at her best.  She's not all that fast at sprints, but has really good endurance and can do same pace reps until the sun sets.  I told her to run 800 for track to improve her speed but she wants to do 1500 or 3000 because she feels she's too slow to be competitive at 800.  I agree with her, but I think it would be good for her longer distance performance if she could develop a little more top end speed. 

     

     

    I see Guelph cleaned up at the OUA's today.  Lindsay was 2nd in the 5k, behind Megan Brown.  Times look a bit slow so it must have been a tough course or a sloggy day.  Guelph has a powerhouse men's team.  Closest to their 29 pts was Windsor at 69, and the best Guelph runner was on the sidelines.  It bodes well for CIS.

     

    fred-urie wrote:

    Tigger, if your daughter runs 70's for a workout, what's her top end at 400 meters. She really

     

    is a 800 meter runner isn't she.

     

     

     

    The 4:06 male milers at the U of W were running 61-62's for a workout .

     

     

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