Jan 16, 2009 5:15 PM
Need help to drop 1:45/mile in Marathon
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this is a very open-ended question but i need to drop 1:45/mile to reach my goal of 3:15/marathon.
I started training a year ago to the day. typically i run no less than every other day for 6-7 miles, which are run averaging 7:30. Obviously, i know my training is not structured but i was hoping for some insight on what areas i should concentrate on the most during my future training. i am currently putting together a 12-month plan devised of numerous training plans out there suggested by others.
vitals - 28, M, 180. completed 2 marathons (10/08 = 5:01, 1/09 = 3:56). i fractured my leg running in september probably due to increased intensities of my runs ( was running 7:15's too many days in a row), so i was limited on my potential because i took a full 10 weeks off, 6 weeks prior to my recent january marathon.
any help would be greatly appreciated. I just want to tackle the most important parts people consider vital to marathon training.
Thanks,
T
2007 chicago tri 3:01 (1st triathlon)
2009 walt disney world marathon 3:56 (1st Marathon)
2009 nashville 1/2 marathon
2009 marine corp marathon
Two things jump out at me right away in your message:
You're running approximately 25-30 miles per week. That sort of mileage will likely not support a 3:15 marathon. You should spend some time trying to build up your base and increase your mileage. Since you already had a serious overuse injury, you'll want to be very careful upping the mileage. A good intermediate goal might be to take three months to increase your mileage to average 40 miles per week. You'll have to figure out the best way for you to do that, though -- don't rush into it.
You're running your everyday runs only a little faster than race pace for a 3:15 marathon. This is too fast! Most of your runs should be at a very easy pace. This will also help prevent injury. I recently ran a 3:11 marathon, running the last several miles at about a 7:15 min/mile pace, and when I was training for that marathon, my long runs were at about an 8:30 pace (and some recovery runs were as slow as a 9:00 pace).
The basic formula for marathon improvement in my experience is pretty easy: Run more miles. Mostly easy. Some fast. Once you get the base built up, you will want to add things like temp runs, marathon pace runs, and some tune-up races of 10K to half-marathon to work on your endurance at faster paces. Of course, a lot of factors go into a successful marathon, so you'll also want to think carefully about race pacing and fueling strategy.
My first marathon was a 4:15. My second was 3:18, my third was 3:30 (went out way too fast and crashed), and my fourth was 3:11, so I know from experience that you can improve as much as you'd like to -- it just takes time! Don't rush it; you have many years of marathoning ahead of you.
Sounds to me like you need to be a little more realistic with your goals. I suggest:
A training log
Stick to the "hard-easy" principal, or the Lydiard method
Limit to one marathon every six months until you have a good, injury free base (this takes most runners years...)
Chip away at your goal time with a chisel, not a sledgehammer
Good luck!!!
Act like a horse. Be dumb. Just run.
- Jumbo Elliot
Smile, it confuses people.
TK1980,
You have an unrealistic goal. Take Werdnam's advice regarding the running, and seek medical attention for the "Post Marathon Effects".
Robert Martin
NFPT Certified Personal Trainer
NFPT Endurance Specialist
RRCA Running Coach
SPINNING Instructor
GRAVITY Personal Training Instructor
GRAVITY Group Instructor
Power Plate Level II Instructor
2010 & 2011 Team Aquaphor Sponsored Athlete
Gatorade G Series PRO Lead Ambassador, San Diego
yes, at some points i do need to cut back but also need to get my long runs in. given that i have been running 7:30 almost every run i know that this is my biggest problem. For me this is a great starting point for me to learn from and to modify down the road as i am about to do. I have a plan i am putting together to get me where i need for my goals. unrealistic goals? i do not think so.
i am amazed at your training 8:30's on long runs and achieving those great marathon times. this is the info i need. Given that you trained this way, where did you make up the extra 1:15/mile pace from your long runs to go from 8:30's to 7:15's at the end of your marathon? just trying to fill in the gap. do you give more credit to speedwork or long runs. Obviously, both are needed. How many miles were you training at your peak? how many miles did you reach for your longest, long run?
my journal is up-to-date from my first run ever to my last, the marathon. writing everything down has helped me alot to figure out my training in the future and what modifications are needed.
given what other have said about my goals, i dont think that i am too far off course. call me crazy i guess!!!
thanks for the reply.
T
2007 chicago tri 3:01 (1st triathlon)
2009 walt disney world marathon 3:56 (1st Marathon)
2009 nashville 1/2 marathon
2009 marine corp marathon
TK1980,
Your goal is unrealistic because you have not built a solid base of running. You have pushed your body too hard, injured yourself, and are likely to do so again given your present training and expectations. It is good that you enjoy the sport and continue running. Build a solid base. If you have only been training one year, run two marathons, and other races, broken your leg, get sick after every race, you are doing too much. I understand the mind is willing, but you have got to let the body catch up.
I suggest doing a lot of reading on runnersworld.com. They have a lot of good running articles and free training plans.
Robert Martin
NFPT Certified Personal Trainer
NFPT Endurance Specialist
RRCA Running Coach
SPINNING Instructor
GRAVITY Personal Training Instructor
GRAVITY Group Instructor
Power Plate Level II Instructor
2010 & 2011 Team Aquaphor Sponsored Athlete
Gatorade G Series PRO Lead Ambassador, San Diego
Maybe saying your goals are unrealistic isn't correct. But to expect that big of a jump from one marathon to the next is unrealistic. It will take time to get that point, be patient. Set intermediate goals, throw in a half -marathong and a10k here and there to gauge your progress, and most of all enjoy the running.
I admit to being like you when I started running. I thought I was going to get so fast because I was going to run so much, I was going to be super prepared and kill my first race. Two lost entry fees later and three major injuries that took months to recover from, I have used the experience from those disappointments three finish lines and trim 27 minutes off a PR from my marathon in 6 months, with some left in the tank at the end. I know I could have cut more off, but I proposed to my girlfriend after the race and wanted to keep some energy for that.
I have seen the biggest improvement in my shorter races. I finish in the top 25%-33% of marathons and top 5-6% of 10ks and 5ks. But I, like you, love the marathon, and put my energy into that
Your passion will help you put in the mileage, your brain will keep you healthy, and your legs will get you there.
You can do it!
Act like a horse. Be dumb. Just run.
- Jumbo Elliot
Smile, it confuses people.
Regarding your question about "making up" the extra 1:15 per mile: Race pace and training pace are very different things. I know it sounds hard to believe that you can run significantly faster than you usually do for more than 26 miles on race day, but that's what the training does for you. In my training for that marathon, I did occasionally run at or below goal marathon pace (with the longest being a 14 mile long run at marathon goal pace), but rarely more than 10% of my weekly miles were that fast. You just have to trust the training.
In fact, I guarantee you that if you build up to a higher average weekly mileage, run two or three long runs of 18+ miles, have a good three-week taper, and fuel and pace yourself appropriately during the marathon -- with NO speedwork and no running faster than 8:00/mile -- you can set a PR in the marathon.
Do some reading on appropriate training paces: Jack Daniels and Pete Pfitzinger have some good books out there that cover this topic.
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