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4528 Views 7 Replies Latest reply: May 5, 2010 7:39 PM by Leecedar
lonnyonline Rookie 1 posts since
Apr 21, 2008
Currently Being Moderated

Jun 12, 2009 1:51 PM

Hit Batt's man that swung

 

This is a two part question. First if a player swings the bat at the ball but get hit on the hands while swinging the bat is that a strike or a Hit by pitch?

 

 

Second part is if that player gets hurt while he was swinging the bat and is taken out of the game can a pinch runner be put in his place or does another batter come up to bat at the same count as the batter that came out of the game. Hard call for me to make but need some clearification.

 

 

Respectfully

 

 

Lonny

 

 

 

 

 

Email responces to lonny@lonnyonline.com

 

 

  • MyTwoSons Community Moderator 224 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jun 13, 2009 4:17 PM (in response to lonnyonline)
    Re: Hit Batt's man that swung

     

    If batter is swinging and the ball hits his hands, it is a deadball strike.  If batter is trying to avoid being hit by pitch and the ball hits his hands, it is Hit by Pitch, unless his hands were in the umpire's strike zone when they were hit. 

     

     

    The hands are not part of the bat.  Proof is you can put the bat down but not your hands. 

     

     

    If the batter can not continue, you need to insert a pinch hitter to finish the at bat with the injured batter's count.

     

     

  • CoachnPilot Rookie 2 posts since
    Jun 28, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jun 28, 2009 2:11 PM (in response to MyTwoSons)
    Re: Hit Batt's man that swung

     

    Couple clarifications.  The hands ARE apart of the bat when the batter is swinging at a pitch.  If the ball hits his hands and goes foul, it is a strike or conversley if it goes fair it is is a live ball.   When not swinging the hands are not a part of the bat and the runner would be awarded 1st base unless a) the hands were in the strike zone in which case the umpire would call the pitch a strike or b) if the batter did not make an effort to get out of the way in which case the umpire would call it a ball or strike as appropriate. 

     

     

    If the batter can not continue the at bat due to the injury, high school rules state he is out and an inning can end in if there are already 2 outs.  Your league may have an amendment to this rule to allow a pich hitter to finish the at bat. 

     

     

    Additionally, if the batter can not continue to play and the team has only 8 players, it is an automatic out when that player is due to come to the plate.

     

     

  • T_Thomas Amateur 13 posts since
    Jun 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jul 3, 2009 11:23 AM (in response to CoachnPilot)
    Re: Hit Batt's man that swung

     

    No offense, CoachnPilot, but please try to substiantiate your "answers" before posting.

     

     

    This kind of misinformation only serves to confuse players and fans, and creates needless confrontations with umpires who actually know the rules.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • CoachnPilot Rookie 2 posts since
    Jun 28, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jul 3, 2009 2:46 PM (in response to T_Thomas)
    Re: Hit Batt's man that swung

    T_Thomas, Uhh, no offense taken. Which part did you not agree with as I quoted the high school 09 handbook for the most part.  I was attempting to clarify the previous post where the author stated the hands are not a part of the bat since you can drop the bat.  Seemed a little ambiguous and could be taken to contradict his previous portion.

  • T_Thomas Amateur 13 posts since
    Jun 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jul 4, 2009 4:34 PM (in response to CoachnPilot)
    Re: Hit Batt's man that swung

     

    CoachnPilot wrote:... Which part did you not agree with as I quoted the high school 09 handbook for the most part. I was attempting to clarify the previous post where the author stated the hands are not a part of the bat since you can drop the bat. Seemed a little ambiguous and could be taken to contradict his previous portion.

     

    Well,.. In every rule set I'm aware of, there should be an immediate dead ball if a pitched ball hits the hand, or any other body part. MyTwoSons got it right.

     

     

    That part about the ball being live if it goes fair after hitting the hand is a prevalent myth, and I'm just trying to prevent it from spreading any farther.

     

     

    The other parts of your answer are High School (Federation) specific, and this wasn't mentioned in the original post.

     

     

    OBR allows substitution for injured batters, and requires nine players to start or continue any game.

     

     

    I have not done any HS games, but I have studied comparisons of Fed rules vs OBR and never seen reference to calling an automatic out out for an injured batter. This seems odd - if that is in fact a NHSF reg, I would like to see it. ( I have seen references to the Fed rule difference allowing continuation with 8 players. )

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • MyTwoSons Community Moderator 224 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Jul 7, 2009 10:40 PM (in response to T_Thomas)
    Re: Hit Batt's man that swung

     

    The hand is not part of the bat. It is part of the batter's body, and if hit by a pitch, the ball is dead, per 5.09(a).

     

     

    - If the batter was offering at the pitch, it's a strike. (2.00 STRIKE)

    - If the batter was touched by the pitch in the strike zone, it's a strike. (2.00 STRIKE)

    - If the pitch bounced on the way to the plate, the batter is awarded first base. (2.00 BALL)

    - If neither of the above was true, then the batter is awarded first base, UNLESS the batter blatantly made no move to avoid being hit by the pitch. (6.08(b))

     

    It is not a hit and it's not a foul ball; It's a DEAD BALL.

     

     

     

  • Leecedar Rookie 3 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. May 5, 2010 7:39 PM (in response to CoachnPilot)
    Re: Hit Batt's man that swung

    Coach,

     

    Sorry to be so blunt, but in ALMOST EVERYTHING, you're mistaken...

     

    Couple clarifications.  The hands ARE apart of the bat when the batter is swinging at a pitch.  If the ball hits his hands and goes foul, it is a strike or conversley if it goes fair it is is a live ball.

     

    INCORRECT... The hands are never part of the bat.  If the batter is swinging at a pitch, the ball is dead because of the batter being hit by the pitched ball, and the pitch is called a strike.

     

    When not swinging the hands are not a part of the bat and the runner would be awarded 1st base unless a) the hands were in the strike zone in which case the umpire would call the pitch a strike or b) if the batter did not make an effort to get out of the way in which case the umpire would call it a ball or strike as appropriate.

     

     

    If the batter can not continue the at bat due to the injury, high school rules state he is out and an inning can end in if there are already 2 outs.  Your league may have an amendment to this rule to allow a pich hitter to finish the at bat.

     

    INCORRECT... High school rules DO NOT STATE that the batter is out.  If the team has an eligible substitute, and the batter is unable to complete his time at bat, a substitute, the substitute assumes the batter's count.

     

    ...If the batter can not continue to play and the team has only 8 players, it is an automatic out when that player is due to come to the plate.

     

    THIS IS THE ONLY TIME that a batter who is up to bat shall be declared out upon injury.  If the team has no eligible substitutes, and the batter is hit by a pitch on a dead ball strike or a dead ball ball (for permitting the pitch to hit him), THEN the batter shall be declared out and any ensuing at-bat for his batting position shall be declared an out.  However, if he is hit by a pitch and is awarded first base, then the last batter not on base would be allowed to run in his place with no out penalty. (See NFHS Rule 4-4-1 note)

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