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512 Views 29 Replies Latest reply: May 19, 2010 5:29 PM by TG. RSS 1 2 Previous Next
west valley 81 Amateur 11 posts since
Feb 15, 2003
Currently Being Moderated

May 18, 2010 3:58 PM

Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

Here's the question.  Here in Cali there is an assembly bill floating around that would prohibit all non wood bats for HS baseball.  THere is also a movement in NY that would require pitch counts in HS baseball.  Are we governing too much?  Is there a real safety issue with non wood bats?  Or would there be the same numbers of broken arms, knees, and tragically deaths from from metal and composite bats.  Also, what are the dollars and cents of the matter, can programs afford to basically start-up a bat program?  Thoughts?

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. May 18, 2010 4:49 PM (in response to west valley 81)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    You're a bit late to the dance. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum on every baseball board.

     

    Logic and your eyes dictate common sense the ball comes off metal faster than wood. Common sense dictates a batted ball with more velocity (metal) would inflict more harm than a batted ball of less velocity (wood). However the statistics to not bear out metal is any more dangerous than wood.

     

    I don't want the government getting involved with baseball and banning products. Choose wood. I don't see any reason for metal bats in high school and college. If you can't swing a wood bat properly by high school go play lacrosse. I want wood for the purity of the game. I prefer watching 6-4 baseball to 10-8 baseball.

     

    I'm not accepting metal bats save money because they don't break. Even on sale the best metal bats cost $300. That's ten $30 wood bats. If you're going to break ten wood bats a year you're doing something wrong.

     

    With all due respect to our former resident metal bat expert, Tumblebug, I've heard the profit margins on metal bats are huge. I don't blame the metal bat companies for making money and attempting to protect their profits. But this is why they fight hard to protect metal. And yes, I under stand it's not just making the bat. They have R&D, admin and distribution costs.

  • Chalkline Legend 543 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. May 18, 2010 5:24 PM (in response to TG.)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

     

    Thoughts?

     

    !http://i50.tinypic.com/124dk5t.jpg|alt=Image and video hosting by TinyPic|src=http://i50.tinypic.com/124dk5t.jpg|border=0!

     

    Dont let the door hit you on the way out?

     

    Metal bats that is

     

     

     

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. May 18, 2010 5:39 PM (in response to Chalkline)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    Buy the $30 wood bats - you'll break 10 a year  

     

    Logic and your eyes sometimes lie. We really need emperical measurements of ball speed off the various bats.

     

    People remember "back when" and don't see the changes from the BESR change and of course the BBCOR hasn't been implemented yet.

     

    Perhaps it's fuzzy memory but I think I once saw a NCAA stat that said HR's went down a lot after they implemented BESR.

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. May 18, 2010 5:51 PM (in response to THECOACH__44)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    "Buy the $30 wood bats - you'll break 10 a year"

     

    I'm not talking about LL where a lot of the kids are clueless. In 18U ball last year I'd say eighteen players broke about one hundred bats in fifty-six games. My son broke two. That's hitting against college prospect pitchers who know how to jam and saw off a hitter.

     

    18 x $300 = $5,400

    118 x $30 = $3,540

     

    Also I didn't have to buy another metal bat for high school this year. It was used for 22 games last year.

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. May 18, 2010 5:53 PM (in response to TG.)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    "Perhaps it's fuzzy memory but I think I once saw a NCAA stat that said HR's went down a lot after they implemented BESR."

     

    What was eliminated were -5 bats hitters could swing like a buggywhip. That drove down NCAA homer totals. The last year of -5 bats the CWS championship game score was 21-14.

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. May 18, 2010 5:58 PM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    Eliminating -5 was part of BESR.

     

     

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. May 18, 2010 6:00 PM (in response to TG.)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    "We really need emperical measurements of ball speed off the various bats."

     

    The BESR test is a joke. Until I see a test where a pitcher is bringing it 85-90mph against a hitter with college/college prospect bat speed I'll call every bat test a joke. Put a Stalker on the exit speed of a metal bat and you will see speeds you will never see off a wood bat. If the speeds are the same based on these tests why doesn't MLB use metal?

     

    At least the NCAA was smart enough to ban composite bats. PIAA (PA) has banned them for 2011.

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. May 18, 2010 6:01 PM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    BESR is a test. -5's were only banned at the high school and college level.

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. May 18, 2010 6:03 PM (in response to TG.)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    There's not a lot of $30 wood adult bats out there.  They're like $70 and up.

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. May 18, 2010 6:09 PM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    You don't need maple. There are many $30 wood bats. My son used one all summer and hit .340 which is excellent against 18U college prospect pitching. The team bought them in bulk for less.

  • Chalkline Legend 543 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. May 18, 2010 6:59 PM (in response to TG.)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    "You don't need maple."

     

    Sometimes you dont need either one?

     

    Son got a triple on a drop 3rd strike in last nites game 60/90. If he would of pushed it a little more? maybe he could of got a HR out of it...LOL!

     

     

     

     

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. May 18, 2010 7:19 PM (in response to TG.)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    The -3 is the joke part.

     

    Take a -5. 

     

    Put 2 oz at the knob.

     

    Presto, it's a -3.

     

    Haven't changed the speed of the swing through the ball one bit.

     

    You'd have to put the extra weight at the big end of the bat to slow it down.

     

    At least the BESR had some effect on the speed of the ball off the bat.

  • THECOACH__44 Legend 289 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. May 18, 2010 7:39 PM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    I have no problem with using wood but I do have a problem with GOVERNMENT mandating. We will see a revolution against government in the next few years and hopefully we will get back to individual responsibility and the Constitution.

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. May 18, 2010 10:50 PM (in response to Chalkline)
    Re: Non Wood or Wood...Thoughts?

    "Put 2 oz at the knob. Presto, it's a -3."

     

    Wrong. Bats are measured before the grips are applied. You can put a boat anchor on a -5 bat and it's still legally a -5 bat.

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