This isn't a LL v. PONY debate. It's a 46/60 closed bases v. 50/70 open bases debate. It's an argument that's been beaten to death on this board. If your LL'ers are behind as they hit the 60/90 field at 13U, is it lack of instruction or lack of talent in the program?

If a kid is talented, playing closed bases in LL isn't going to hold him back. The kids I took on my 13U team who only played LL picked up the open bases nuances quickly and are playing in high school.

By high school it doesn't matter where a kid started (LL or PONY). What matters is he had the athletic talent, baseball talent and work ethic to get to there.

Dont agree.  LL is fine for every talent level and that is why IMO, there are so many rules that restrict the above average player.  If we are talking PONY (13/14) with 54/80 fields there is no comparison and the LL player will be at a severe disadvantage.  Players in PONY League from Bronco (11/12yr old) with 48/70 are playing real baseball with leads, balks, etc. , and the move up isnt that dramatic.  It would be in LL.   I am not knocking LL, since it serves its' purpose, but those players would not fair well against PONY and if PONY players (13 yr olds were to play in the LL World Series,(especially in the band box fields they play on) they would dominate. Most importantly, the really talented players would certainly be at an advantage when trying out for their HS Teams.    Don

I don't care who agrees or disagrees. This debate is the most beaten dead horse on this site. It's real simple and not worthy of debate. If a kid has the talent and the desire to play high school ball it's not going to matter a rat's patutie where he played and under what rules as a prepubescent, mini-field player. Who cares if a kid is 2-4 weeks behind on a few skills at 13U. 

My son's 18U showcase coach laughs when parents promotes their son mentioning anything more than his current ability and where he played last year. 18U coaches don't ask whether kids played LL or PONY. They ask current sixty times, throwing velocity, POP times, etc along with where they played last year. And chances are at this level the coach knows of the player anyway. By knowing of him I'm talking about his current ability, not where he played as a prepubescent preteen.

While I hate to disagree with TG - who clearly knows everything about everything including what is and isn't worthy of debate - I will nonetheless beg to differ. Keeping in mind that things seem to vary from region to region, I will tell you how it works in my neck of the woods (Southern California).

The only Frosh/Sophs I have ever seen play on varsity at our two local high schools played PONY ball (and travel).  Why? Because not only do they know how to play the game, but they are comfortable playing the game.  There is a lot more to baseball than hitting, fielding, and throwing.  Don't get me wrong, if you can hit, field, and throw very well, you'll get a chance but only after you learn and become comfortable.  But you better have eye-popping talent if you don't know how to play the game because you will probably get cut before you get a chance if you don't. High School ain't baseball school around here.  It is an accumulation of skilled and experienced players who are managed, not so much taught.  It is a dogfight to make the Freshman roster.

This characterization that it only takes a couple weeks to catch up, especially as a pitcher, is completely laughable.  It is a mental game and things like pitching with runners on base are mental skills that take time and game experience to master. 

OK, Don, what do we do after the first 20 minutes of the first LL Juniors practice, then ?

Explain how it is my son, who never played anything but LL ball, read pitchers very well, and has from the moment he stepped on a 90' diamond ? He's a base-stealing machine. It wasn't until THIS year that he was caught stealing on the 90' diamond (and he's 17). He's NOT blindingly fast either. He just gets an excellent read, and slides well.

It isn't rocket science. All it takes is observation.

So Kyle, you dont think it makes any difference that the LL fields are smaller, the mound distances are shorter as well as the bases ?   Very unusual since size, in this case, does matter.   I agree with you the coaches who run these programs make the real difference regardless of which organization it is; but the distances involved are very important.   Don

PONY plays OBR Rules.

Really?

They play on a 90' base distance field with 60'6" pitching distance?

They play 9 innings?

The don't have pitching limitations?

They don't have boundary limitations?

They don't have age limits?

They don't require safety bases?

They only allow wood bats?

They allow unlimited offensive times out?

They allow alcholol ads and spoinsors?

They don't have curfews?

They don't have a 10 run rule?

Pitchers can return to the mound?

They don't allow starter re-entry?

Huddles are not limited th three players max?