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575 Views 15 Replies Latest reply: Sep 8, 2009 4:45 PM by Sizemore__24 RSS 1 2 Previous Next
Steve__225 Rookie 6 posts since
May 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Sep 7, 2009 5:21 AM

LL Inequities

Here are some thoughts I have on LL and the LLWS:

 

- why do some teams (MEA for one) only have to win 5 or 6 games to qualify for the WS? For a team from my district 5 or 6 games may not even get you a district championship. Doesn't really seem right to me.

 

- Why doesn't LL try to balance out the number of leagues within each district in a particular state? For example, here in Massachusetts we have 16 districts. Some districts have 9 or 10 leagues, and some have 24 or 25. Shouldn't LL look at this every few years to ensure that every league has an equal road to their district championship and state championship?

 

- There are 8 games played at 8:00 during the LLWS, why do some teams get to play twice in that time slot and others do not get a slot? I realize that not all 16 teams can play in one of the prime time slots - 3 of those games are eliminiation games. The schedulers could make sure that each US team plays in one of those slots, maybe make sure that if a team doesn't play in a prime time game one year that they do get one the following year. Maybe 4 US teams and 4 International teams each year.

 

- ESPN and ABC need a basic LL coach as a third person in the booth. The guys gernerally do a great job (with the exception of Musberger) but they sometimes think they know whay certain things are happening and they do not - this is LL baseball, not MLB - it's not the same game.

 

- Lastly - I would think that LLB could afford to let the players keep their game jersies after their team is eliminated. Why do they have to charge them if they want the shirt and then if the parents agree to pay they do not even get the actual game shirt, they get a replica? OK, maybe there is something in the by-laws about getting gifts etc, so if you have to charge the parents charge them face value and give the kid the actual shirt, not a replica. Don't tell me that LLB doesn't get some kind of sweet deal from Russell on the unifomrs.

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Sep 7, 2009 8:13 AM (in response to Steve__225)
    Re: LL Inequities

    +- why do some teams (MEA for one) only have to win 5 or 6 games to qualify for the WS? For a team from my district 5 or 6 games may not even get you a district championship. Doesn't really seem right to me. +

     

    Logistics and the number of leagues in the geographical area.  Texas and California are split because logistical problems.

     

     

    +- Why doesn't LL try to balance out the number of leagues within each district in a particular state? For example, here in Massachusetts we have 16 districts. Some districts have 9 or 10 leagues, and some have 24 or 25. Shouldn't LL look at this every few years to ensure that every league has an equal road to their district championship and state championship? +

     

    Travel time would have to be taken into consideration at the district level. It's not just about the number of leagues.

    Extrenme example: Pittsfield and Provincetown in the same district wouldn't work very well.

     

    The schedulers could make sure that each US team plays in one of those slots, maybe make sure that if a team doesn't play in a prime time game one year that they do get one the following year

     

    Ratings.  As for the teams - it doesn't matter year to year as the teams are from different leagues/states so there's really no "make up" involved.

     

    - ESPN and ABC need a basic LL coach as a third person in the booth. The guys gernerally do a great job (with the exception of Musberger) but they sometimes think they know whay certain things are happening and they do not - this is LL baseball, not MLB - it's not the same game.

     

    I like that idea. The umpires want someone who knows the rules in the booth too.

     

    - Lastly - I would think that LLB could afford to let the players keep their game jersies after their team is eliminated.

     

    I never heard that they didn't keep them. Is this first hand or a rumor?

     

     

     

     

  • Mike_CVUA Legend 593 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Sep 7, 2009 8:16 AM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Re: LL Inequities

    "- why do some teams (MEA for one) only have to win 5 or 6 games to qualify for the WS? For a team from my district 5 or 6 games may not even get you a district championship. Doesn't really seem right to me."

     

    I umped in the EMEA tournies last year in Poland.

     

    There were 4 teams last year, and only 3 teams this year.  The mission of Little League is to promote the game world-wide.  Many times, the "foreign" teams are either kids in military, diplomatic missions, or businesses like oil.  I was happy to see Uganda field an indigenous team last year.  But in that area of the world, Uganda would have been the exception rather than the rule.

     

    It's hard to get teams to grow in some of those regions.  Now, Uganda is building their own "regional-like" stadium, so it's likely that the MEA or maybe Africa only will break off a region.  We'll see.

     

    In 2008, in the MEA tourney, each team played each other twice and team record #1 played #3, and #2 played #4 in the semis.  There was a consolation game and a championship.

     

    There WAS a lot of baseball, and I was happy to umpire there.

     

    Mike CVUA

  • Kyle_ Legend 556 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Sep 7, 2009 8:26 AM (in response to Mike_CVUA)
    Re: LL Inequities

    Are you really complaining about the amount of games are required to get there from Massachusetts? You have 16 districts. I work in SoCal District 70. Please, spare me. Do you have any idea how easy you have it?

     

    Any why a coach, instead of an umpire in the booth? Wouldn't you want someone who knew the rules of the game?

     

    Those custom jerseys are expensive, and they reuse them.

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Sep 7, 2009 9:54 AM (in response to Kyle_)
    Re: LL Inequities

    +Why doesn't LL try to balance out the number of leagues within each district in a particular state?

    For example, here in Massachusetts we have 16 districts. Some districts have 9 or 10 leagues, and some have 24 or 25.+

    In reality, it's up to the DAs!

     

    In Florida, we have a State DA Association and we look at this regularly.  In the past 4-5 years we have had three Districts with large number of teams "split" and form new Districts (we've gone from 24 to  27 Districts and there is some talk of going to 28). 

     

    The other thing to look at is size (our District is about 100 miles north to south and 50 miles east to west).

     

    Bottom line, for a DA it's a lot easier to run a 10 - 12 league District than one with 24 - 25 leagues.

    State of Florida DA Association

  • Kyle_ Legend 556 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Sep 7, 2009 10:36 AM (in response to Steve__225)
    Re: LL Inequities

    +What are you trying to say - umpires are the only ones who know the rules? +

     

    For the most part, yes. How many coaches do you know that can explain 7.13 in detail? LL has someone standing by to explain the oddities to the on-camera guys. It sort of works.

     

    ...every team should have equal opportunity to win their district and advance

     

    Then WP will be populated by teams from SoCal, Texas and Florida. Life ain't fair, just look at the number of games that Idaho has to win, compared to a team from San Diego.

     

    Do you have a solution?

     

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Sep 7, 2009 10:57 AM (in response to Kyle_)
    Re: LL Inequities

    "What are you trying to say - umpires are the only ones who know the rules?

     

    For the most part, yes. How many coaches do you know that can explain 7.13 in detail? LL has someone standing by to explain the oddities to the on-camera guys. It sort of works."

     

    The last thing I would want in the booth is an umpire. He would bore the audience to death explaining rules in detail. There are plenty of coaches who can explain 7.13 to a level that the audience would understand without boring them.

     

    This is the problem I have with a lot of umpires. They think they're the game and are the only ones who know the game. I'd much perfer a coach break down and explain strategy than have an umpire explain rules.

     

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

     

    The announcers should sit down with LL coaches at the LLWS and have the coaches explain the strategies and rules. Then it should be the responsibility of the announcers to understand 7.13.

     

    What ticks me off about Musburger, other than I've always thought he sucks at every announcing job he does, is he shows up at the end of the tournament completely ignorant of what has transpired over the tournament and dives in feet first.

     

    Plus, I don't think Musburger is aware travel ball exists the way he talks about LL. I believe there's a way to intertwine travel into the conversation since it has so much to do with most of these teams getting to Williamsport, without debating which one is better ball. It could be promoted as more ball at the all-star level of competition these kids played together.

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Sep 7, 2009 11:08 AM (in response to Lou_B)
    Re: LL Inequities

    The LL we came from had twenty-two teams. The teams got to play four pool games. Then they proceeded to elimination play. It took playing eight games to win districts. I thought it was great the team got to play that much before regions and states.

     

    Our section did reset districts as more farmers sold out to residential developers. Our district would have become ridiculously large. It's still one of the largest due to the population density on the side closest to the city (5th largest metro area).

     

    I know sections were altered two years ago. There are now two more sections. Due to geographics the state was split in two with east and west champions playing a best of three for the state title.

  • Kyle_ Legend 556 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Sep 7, 2009 11:38 AM (in response to TG.)
    Re: LL Inequities

    I wasn't recommending to have an umpire in the booth. In fact, that would mean they'd have to explain some of those calls on the field. That wouldn't be good for anybody. They just need someone off camera, like that have now.

     

    Most LL umpires don't know all the in's and out's of 7.13.

     

    I like when the ABC/ESPN guys say the umpires are all volunteers. They usually say that after an awful call.

     

    Oh yeah, LL would love Brent to pimp some other organization during the tourney. Not.

  • TG. Legend 954 posts since
    Jul 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Sep 7, 2009 12:42 PM (in response to oldhardballer)
    Re: LL Inequities

    "LL would love Brent to pimp some other organization during the tourney. Not"

     

    First, for anyone who hasn't read enough of my posts, I'm pro-LL. Maybe it's because I've never liked Musberger. But I'm tired of hearing him say these are the best teams and the best players. And I do recognize a lot of kids at the LlWS are among the best because they also play travel. My son did both.

     

    If LL wants to be honest about youth baseball and the process of how these kids developed as players and how the teams came together as teams, they should acknowledge the truth. I guess the problem is this would blow up the myth of June 15th. Then again the international teams aren't selected on June 15th (and I know why).

     

    Maybe my issue is just Musburger coming into the booth all bluster when he has no idea what he's talking about. But, then again, I feel this way regardless of the sport he's announcing. It's as if the guy thinks his audience is ignorant and he's the beacon of truth. The reality is he's attempting to blow smoke up the rears of knowledgeable viewers.

  • oldhardballer Legend 787 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Sep 7, 2009 3:29 PM (in response to Manny_A)
    Re: LL Inequities

    LOL  With all this debate and banter the worst things that I saw come out of all of this is   A) Kids playing a lot of baseball  and  B) Brent Musberger shouldnt run for Political Office.   Don

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Sep 8, 2009 9:11 AM (in response to TG.)
    Re: LL Inequities

    - why do some teams (MEA for one) only have to win 5 or 6 games to qualify for the WS? For a team from my district 5 or 6 games may not even get you a district championship. Doesn't really seem right to me.

     

    It's the nature of the LL beast when it comes to international play. 

     

    Who would you suggest that the team from Dhahran, S.A. play that's the equivalent of Districts, Sectionals, and States?  They come from a league that had only 180 kids from tee ball to Seniors.  I seriously doubt that there are any other local leagues in the Kingdom, since most American military personnel left the country in 2003.  And baseball probably isn't a well-known sport for the locals.

     

    Yeah, perhaps LL HQ should reconsider the breakout of teams that play in the two regionals in Kutno.  The European Regional had 11 teams this year, while the MEA had only 3 teams.  Perhaps they should have placed a few more teams from the European Region into the MEA Region to provide more balance.

     

    In the past, the two regionals were known as EMEA and Transatlantic, with the former being made up of real international teams, and the latter of US teams in Europe and the Middle East.  To me, LL took a major step backwards by changing to its present format in 2008.  In 2006, for example, the EMEA Regional consisted of 13 teams, and the Transatlantic had 6 teams.  What happened to those countries that had teams in the 2006 Regional and not in this year's, I don't know.  They include Russia, Georgia, Moldova, Slovenia, and Austria.  Also, Italy and Germany had two teams each in the Regionals, one in the Transatlantic, and one in the EMEA.  Not anymore.

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Sep 8, 2009 9:21 AM (in response to Kyle_)
    Re: LL Inequities

    This is the problem I have with a lot of umpires. They think they're the game and are the only ones who know the game. I'd much perfer a coach break down and explain strategy than have an umpire explain rules.

     

    What kind of real strategy would a coach in the booth break down during a LL World Series game?  I can hear it now: 

     

    +"This would be an ideal time for the batter to wag his bat up and down to try and rattle the pitcher into pitching Ball Four."

     

    "I would send my runner from first halfway to second to try and force the catcher to throw down and let my runner from third score."

     

    "Despite Rule 7.13, I would tell my runner at first to take off for second when the pitcher starts his wind up just to stay out of the double play."

     

    "My pitcher would have dropped the ball from the rubber to intentionally walk the batter without having to throw actual pitches."+

     

    No thanks.

  • Sizemore__24 Amateur 10 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Sep 8, 2009 4:45 PM (in response to TG.)
    Re: LL Inequities

    Yep along with Kyle, I think ours (District 31) has 13 teams?  2-Encinitas, 2-Poway, 2-Del-Mar, RB, CMR, RSF, SB, Escondido Nat, Escondido Am. and 4S Ranch.  The pattern is 2 or 3 pool games in four pools where the top two emerge from each pool.  Then you have an 8 team single-elimination to win districts.  So one hit pitcher can do you in and you don't have the double-elimination to maybe catch another team.  Getting out of district is an accomplishment.  Sectionals has 4 districts, and from there I think you have what southern sub with 5 districts, northern sub with 5, and finally northern so-cal plays southern so-cal for the regional. 

     

    Or am I missing a round?

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